Mikael Grev

Hello Thomas,

There's a bug in addAll(Collection). It leaves the list with all nulls.

String[] objs = new String[129]; Arrays.fill(objs, "Hello, world"); GapList<Object> nonNullList = new GapList<>(128); nonNullList.addAll(Arrays.asList(objs)); System.out.println(nonNullList.get(0)); // Prints null, but shouldn't.

I hope for an update.

Cheers,
Mikael Grev

Hello Thomas,

There's a bug in addAll(Collection). It leaves the list with all nulls.

String[] objs = new String[129]; Arrays.fill(objs, "Hello, world"); GapList<Object> nonNullList = new GapList<>(128); nonNullList.addAll(Arrays.asList(objs)); System.out.println(nonNullList.get(0)); // Prints null, but shouldn't.

I hope for an update.

Cheers,
Mikael Grev

Yeah, it's always a good idea to blame the users. Make the users change, not Maven.

The users are what they are. Adapt or fade away.

Cheers,
Mikael Grev

But a launcher brings a whole slew of other problems. One shouldn't need one or they should build one into Java, which is kind of backwards.

Besides, it doesn't solve dynamic demands. We never know beforehand if the user intend to open a 4GB image with our app.

This is a problem that should've been addressed long ago.

But a launcher brings a whole slew of other problems. One shouldn't need one or they should build one into Java, which is kind of backwards.

Besides, it doesn't solve dynamic demands. We never know beforehand if the user intend to open a 4GB image with our app.

This is a problem that should've been addressed long ago.

But a launcher brings a whole slew of other problems. One shouldn't need one or they should build one into Java, which is kind of backwards.

Besides, it doesn't solve dynamic demands. We never know beforehand if the user intend to open a 4GB image with our app.

This is a problem that should've been addressed long ago.

But a launcher brings a whole slew of other problems. One shouldn't need one or they should build one into Java, which is kind of backwards.

Besides, it doesn't solve dynamic demands. We never know beforehand if the user intend to open a 4GB image with our app.

This is a problem that should've been addressed long ago.

You want the end user, who can be my mother, to change the memory settings?? My mother thinks the hard drive is the memory...

Usability.

You want the end user, who can be my mother, to change the memory settings?? My mother thinks the hard drive is the memory...

Usability.

You want the end user, who can be my mother, to change the memory settings?? My mother thinks the hard drive is the memory...

Usability.

You want the end user, who can be my mother, to change the memory settings?? My mother thinks the hard drive is the memory...

Usability.

You want the end user, who can be my mother, to change the memory settings?? My mother thinks the hard drive is the memory...

Usability.

You want the end user, who can be my mother, to change the memory settings?? My mother thinks the hard drive is the memory...

Usability.

You want the end user, who can be my mother, to change the memory settings?? My mother thinks the hard drive is the memory...

Usability.

You want the end user, who can be my mother, to change the memory settings?? My mother thinks the hard drive is the memory...

Usability.

I don't get the math.

A normal major revision for Java cycle is 18 months, or so the goal is. JDK 7 plan A has been in the works for a few years and most things are done. Only a few ones, Lambdas and Jigsaw (not small but has been worked on for some time now), remain.

So, to complete the last 30 (or so) percent takes 21 months according to Plan A. This is more than a normal full release cycle! It's almost as long as 1.4 -> 5.0 which was a really big change.

If this was because the work force were being severly reduced I would understand it somewhat, but Mark sais that the work force is larger now and growing. The merger shouldn't affect technical work like this either, unless all developers needs to convert to JDeveloper of course. ;)

It shouldn't have to take almost two years to complete the last bits. Two years in IT-time is a really really long time. Complete languages has been build in less time.

Hence, I don't get the math.

Cheers,
Mikael

I don't get the math.

A normal major revision for Java cycle is 18 months, or so the goal is. JDK 7 plan A has been in the works for a few years and most things are done. Only a few ones, Lambdas and Jigsaw (not small but has been worked on for some time now), remain.

So, to complete the last 30 (or so) percent takes 21 months according to Plan A. This is more than a normal full release cycle! It's almost as long as 1.4 -> 5.0 which was a really big change.

If this was because the work force were being severly reduced I would understand it somewhat, but Mark sais that the work force is larger now and growing. The merger shouldn't affect technical work like this either, unless all developers needs to convert to JDeveloper of course. ;)

It shouldn't have to take almost two years to complete the last bits. Two years in IT-time is a really really long time. Complete languages has been build in less time.

Hence, I don't get the math.

Cheers,
Mikael

What they need to do it to explain why one should throw away thousands of hours, per deveper, of Swing training and learn JavaFX from scratch. JavaFX must be so so much better that it pays off to do the switch. (No none-Java developer will buy into JavaFX without asking the current Java developers what they think first. And if the "old" develoers doesn't see a need for JavaFX, no one will.)

Since above can't be fulfilled they should swollow the pride, fire some middle management and get back to doing what they know, Swing. Now with modules for Java 7 they can make a new clean version of Swing (SwingHD with JavaHD), that is much better and takes only minutes for Swinge developers to learn. Adoption effort would be minimal. They could maybe rebrand JavaFX's Scene Graph to JavaHD and build SwingHD on to of it).

Of course they will never do this, there's too much pride is involved, but it is the only way and they probably all know it.

There's a name for this phenomenon, Death March. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_march_%28software_development%29)

Something I've wondered is how one could use Weak or Phantom references to revive an object. What I want is to know when there are no strong (and/or Weak, Soft) references to an object and then re-establish it as a normal object by referencing it again using a strong reference.

That would be the killer use case for clean and simple object pool caches. I know, they are usually not needed, but I want one for big ByteBuffers and my current implementation uses a manual deregister approach.

So, does anyone know of a working way to get a reference back right before it is being garbage collected?

Cheers,
Mikael Grev

Something I've wondered is how one could use Weak or Phantom references to revive an object. What I want is to know when there are no strong (and/or Weak, Soft) references to an object and then re-establish it as a normal object by referencing it again using a strong reference.

That would be the killer use case for clean and simple object pool caches. I know, they are usually not needed, but I want one for big ByteBuffers and my current implementation uses a manual deregister approach.

So, does anyone know of a working way to get a reference back right before it is being garbage collected?

Cheers,
Mikael Grev

The heavy flickering while scrolling is a definite show stopper. That needs to be fixed asap.

Cheers,
Mikael Grev

The heavy flickering while scrolling is a definite show stopper. That needs to be fixed asap.

Cheers,
Mikael Grev

Google collections is absolutely fantastic.

However, a 578k compressed jar. That's a lot to carry for improved collection classes. I guess it doesn't matter much on a server but a bit heavy if deploying client software. Both regarding download and startup time.

Not sure how to solve these things though. Maybe some sort of standard way to denote that your library is obfuscatable, possibly trough standard annotations, so that unused parts can be safely removed at build time. This means no reflection into those parts though, and carefully handling serialization.

Anyways, it's a great library and the size problem is more of a Java problem in general.

Maybe I'm just a bit cranky today... ;)

Cheers,
Mikael

Google collections is absolutely fantastic.

However, a 578k compressed jar. That's a lot to carry for improved collection classes. I guess it doesn't matter much on a server but a bit heavy if deploying client software. Both regarding download and startup time.

Not sure how to solve these things though. Maybe some sort of standard way to denote that your library is obfuscatable, possibly trough standard annotations, so that unused parts can be safely removed at build time. This means no reflection into those parts though, and carefully handling serialization.

Anyways, it's a great library and the size problem is more of a Java problem in general.

Maybe I'm just a bit cranky today... ;)

Cheers,
Mikael

I have used JProfiler since 3.x and since I'm very interested in performance I couldn't think of a world without it.

Sure, VisualVM is there and free, but in its current state it's no where near JProfiler.

Maybe among the most useful features in JProfiler, one that's not very well known I think, it that you can select any object in memory and trace it back to it's roots, normally a statically held object. That has been invaluable to me when tracking down memory leaks that I didn't think I had.

Kudos for a great tool! This is my way of paying back the hours/swedish kroner I saved with it (minus its monetary price, which is small change when compared to the winnings).

Cheers,
Mikael

I have used JProfiler since 3.x and since I'm very interested in performance I couldn't think of a world without it.

Sure, VisualVM is there and free, but in its current state it's no where near JProfiler.

Maybe among the most useful features in JProfiler, one that's not very well known I think, it that you can select any object in memory and trace it back to it's roots, normally a statically held object. That has been invaluable to me when tracking down memory leaks that I didn't think I had.

Kudos for a great tool! This is my way of paying back the hours/swedish kroner I saved with it (minus its monetary price, which is small change when compared to the winnings).

Cheers,
Mikael

Hmm, I felt I need to put my money where my mouth is and post the Color Chooser. It's not nice to complain without a concrete idea I have been taught.

Cheers,
Mikael

Hmm, I felt I need to put my money where my mouth is and post the Color Chooser. It's not nice to complain without a concrete idea I have been taught.

Cheers,
Mikael

It looks the same as it did in -98, so yes, it looks old. And ugly.

This probably falls under the saying: "it's expensive to be poor" but I don't understand why the governance of Java (Sun mostly I guess) isn't more sneaky in these matters.

If they were to poke in JColorChooser, why no make it a contest? The price doesn't have to be a million dollars, but maybe a contract to do 100 hours more? I mean, what a way to get a good programmer/designer team on board!

I and a Sun engineer (Sergey Malenkov) actually did a redesign of the color chooser almost two years year ago. Of course, it was just a design in Photoshop, but anyway, a good programmer would realize it in a couple of days. Tops. I think you would like it, it looked more like in Photoshop.

If you're short of resources (Sun again) you have to be inventive. Touching up a -98 app to Q4 -98 doesn't cut it. IMHO. Unless you have abandoned something, but then you should be frank about that too, so not to inject anger and dispair.

Cheers,
Mikael Grev

It looks the same as it did in -98, so yes, it looks old. And ugly.

This probably falls under the saying: "it's expensive to be poor" but I don't understand why the governance of Java (Sun mostly I guess) isn't more sneaky in these matters.

If they were to poke in JColorChooser, why no make it a contest? The price doesn't have to be a million dollars, but maybe a contract to do 100 hours more? I mean, what a way to get a good programmer/designer team on board!

I and a Sun engineer (Sergey Malenkov) actually did a redesign of the color chooser almost two years year ago. Of course, it was just a design in Photoshop, but anyway, a good programmer would realize it in a couple of days. Tops. I think you would like it, it looked more like in Photoshop.

If you're short of resources (Sun again) you have to be inventive. Touching up a -98 app to Q4 -98 doesn't cut it. IMHO. Unless you have abandoned something, but then you should be frank about that too, so not to inject anger and dispair.

Cheers,
Mikael Grev

Very impressive. Very impressive indeed!

Keep it up!

Cheers,
Mikael

Wow, I did not expect that.

Cheers,
Mikael

Wow, I did not expect that.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

Jim,

It looks good now.

Cheers,
Mikael

On Mac about a letter on the right side is cut off.

Cheers,
Mikael Grev

On Mac about a letter on the right side is cut off.

Cheers,
Mikael Grev

With real properties in the language you would write something like this:

public property MyListenerProperty myListeners;

and that would be it... Optimized, done and 10% of the code. :)

With real properties in the language you would write something like this:

public property MyListenerProperty myListeners;

and that would be it... Optimized, done and 10% of the code. :)

I don't like bugs. They disrupt my mental balance.. ;)

:)

If anyone is interested they should know that the MigLayout code is segmented exactly for this purpose, to port it to different platforms. 95% of the code is just math and such and is completely void of any GUI bindings. There's hardly any Java specific stuff there at all. All GUI bindings are made in the three proxy classes and are usually just one-line proxy calls to the native GUI toolkit widget methods...

So, if anyone is interested in being a God (I know I am, but I am currently time challanged until my RFE to lengthen the day to 36 hours gets ratified), this seems to be an easy enough way.

And, if the port is successful I will of course host it on the main MigLayout site.

Did I mention you can be a God?? :)

Cheers,
Mikael

:)

If anyone is interested they should know that the MigLayout code is segmented exactly for this purpose, to port it to different platforms. 95% of the code is just math and such and is completely void of any GUI bindings. There's hardly any Java specific stuff there at all. All GUI bindings are made in the three proxy classes and are usually just one-line proxy calls to the native GUI toolkit widget methods...

So, if anyone is interested in being a God (I know I am, but I am currently time challanged until my RFE to lengthen the day to 36 hours gets ratified), this seems to be an easy enough way.

And, if the port is successful I will of course host it on the main MigLayout site.

Did I mention you can be a God?? :)

Cheers,
Mikael

Thank you for those kind words Jacek.

MigLayout and SwingBuilder seem to work very well together. They solve the same kind of problems, only at different abstraction levels.

Hello,

Could it be that you run it with security permissions? If so they can't be dragged outside the screen and I don't compensate for that. Yet..

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello,

Could it be that you run it with security permissions? If so they can't be dragged outside the screen and I don't compensate for that. Yet..

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello,

Could it be that you run it with security permissions? If so they can't be dragged outside the screen and I don't compensate for that. Yet..

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello,

Could it be that you run it with security permissions? If so they can't be dragged outside the screen and I don't compensate for that. Yet..

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello,

Could it be that you run it with security permissions? If so they can't be dragged outside the screen and I don't compensate for that. Yet..

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello,

Could it be that you run it with security permissions? If so they can't be dragged outside the screen and I don't compensate for that. Yet..

Cheers,
Mikael

Edit: Removed. I did not see that the article consisted of several pages...

:-)

Cheers,
Mikael

Edit: Removed. I did not see that the article consisted of several pages...

:-)

Cheers,
Mikael

Yeah, BB is king!

I have not tried it on Linux. My target audience isn't really the techies that are using Linux though. This Media Player is for the other 99%. :)

But of course, it will work in Linux. I just won't put that much initial effort that way.

Cheers,
Mikael

Yeah, BB is king!

I have not tried it on Linux. My target audience isn't really the techies that are using Linux though. This Media Player is for the other 99%. :)

But of course, it will work in Linux. I just won't put that much initial effort that way.

Cheers,
Mikael

Yeah, BB is king!

I have not tried it on Linux. My target audience isn't really the techies that are using Linux though. This Media Player is for the other 99%. :)

But of course, it will work in Linux. I just won't put that much initial effort that way.

Cheers,
Mikael

Yeah, BB is king!

I have not tried it on Linux. My target audience isn't really the techies that are using Linux though. This Media Player is for the other 99%. :)

But of course, it will work in Linux. I just won't put that much initial effort that way.

Cheers,
Mikael

Yeah, BB is king!

I have not tried it on Linux. My target audience isn't really the techies that are using Linux though. This Media Player is for the other 99%. :)

But of course, it will work in Linux. I just won't put that much initial effort that way.

Cheers,
Mikael

Yeah, BB is king!

I have not tried it on Linux. My target audience isn't really the techies that are using Linux though. This Media Player is for the other 99%. :)

But of course, it will work in Linux. I just won't put that much initial effort that way.

Cheers,
Mikael

JavaFX is using Swings components under the hood so they aren't going anywhere soon. Also JavaFXScript is just another lanugage, it won't "solve" anything. Even though Sun say that it is there for the designers I haven't seen any designers using it yet. All I see are tests made around the web by us normal developers...

Cheers,
Mikael

JavaFX is using Swings components under the hood so they aren't going anywhere soon. Also JavaFXScript is just another lanugage, it won't "solve" anything. Even though Sun say that it is there for the designers I haven't seen any designers using it yet. All I see are tests made around the web by us normal developers...

Cheers,
Mikael

It adds to the coplexity of the language. There will be more way to do the same thing. People that already "know" Java will need to go back and relearn this. As fas as BGGA goes there is also alot of quite complex things that is introduced, such as how return and break are treated.

For us intetested in the language this isn't a problem but most Java developers are just using the language to get something done and will never for instance go to javalobby.org...

I think the fact that the language will be more complex is undisputed. The question is whether the gains are larger than the complexity increment. Joshua Bloch, which is without a doubt a very credited Java lanugage expert, thinks so and so does most "normal" developers I talk to think.

It adds to the coplexity of the language. There will be more way to do the same thing. People that already "know" Java will need to go back and relearn this. As fas as BGGA goes there is also alot of quite complex things that is introduced, such as how return and break are treated.

For us intetested in the language this isn't a problem but most Java developers are just using the language to get something done and will never for instance go to javalobby.org...

I think the fact that the language will be more complex is undisputed. The question is whether the gains are larger than the complexity increment. Joshua Bloch, which is without a doubt a very credited Java lanugage expert, thinks so and so does most "normal" developers I talk to think.

It adds to the coplexity of the language. There will be more way to do the same thing. People that already "know" Java will need to go back and relearn this. As fas as BGGA goes there is also alot of quite complex things that is introduced, such as how return and break are treated.

For us intetested in the language this isn't a problem but most Java developers are just using the language to get something done and will never for instance go to javalobby.org...

I think the fact that the language will be more complex is undisputed. The question is whether the gains are larger than the complexity increment. Joshua Bloch, which is without a doubt a very credited Java lanugage expert, thinks so and so does most "normal" developers I talk to think.

It adds to the coplexity of the language. There will be more way to do the same thing. People that already "know" Java will need to go back and relearn this. As fas as BGGA goes there is also alot of quite complex things that is introduced, such as how return and break are treated.

For us intetested in the language this isn't a problem but most Java developers are just using the language to get something done and will never for instance go to javalobby.org...

I think the fact that the language will be more complex is undisputed. The question is whether the gains are larger than the complexity increment. Joshua Bloch, which is without a doubt a very credited Java lanugage expert, thinks so and so does most "normal" developers I talk to think.

It adds to the coplexity of the language. There will be more way to do the same thing. People that already "know" Java will need to go back and relearn this. As fas as BGGA goes there is also alot of quite complex things that is introduced, such as how return and break are treated.

For us intetested in the language this isn't a problem but most Java developers are just using the language to get something done and will never for instance go to javalobby.org...

I think the fact that the language will be more complex is undisputed. The question is whether the gains are larger than the complexity increment. Joshua Bloch, which is without a doubt a very credited Java lanugage expert, thinks so and so does most "normal" developers I talk to think.

It adds to the coplexity of the language. There will be more way to do the same thing. People that already "know" Java will need to go back and relearn this. As fas as BGGA goes there is also alot of quite complex things that is introduced, such as how return and break are treated.

For us intetested in the language this isn't a problem but most Java developers are just using the language to get something done and will never for instance go to javalobby.org...

I think the fact that the language will be more complex is undisputed. The question is whether the gains are larger than the complexity increment. Joshua Bloch, which is without a doubt a very credited Java lanugage expert, thinks so and so does most "normal" developers I talk to think.

It adds to the coplexity of the language. There will be more way to do the same thing. People that already "know" Java will need to go back and relearn this. As fas as BGGA goes there is also alot of quite complex things that is introduced, such as how return and break are treated.

For us intetested in the language this isn't a problem but most Java developers are just using the language to get something done and will never for instance go to javalobby.org...

I think the fact that the language will be more complex is undisputed. The question is whether the gains are larger than the complexity increment. Joshua Bloch, which is without a doubt a very credited Java lanugage expert, thinks so and so does most "normal" developers I talk to think.

It adds to the coplexity of the language. There will be more way to do the same thing. People that already "know" Java will need to go back and relearn this. As fas as BGGA goes there is also alot of quite complex things that is introduced, such as how return and break are treated.

For us intetested in the language this isn't a problem but most Java developers are just using the language to get something done and will never for instance go to javalobby.org...

I think the fact that the language will be more complex is undisputed. The question is whether the gains are larger than the complexity increment. Joshua Bloch, which is without a doubt a very credited Java lanugage expert, thinks so and so does most "normal" developers I talk to think.

It adds to the coplexity of the language. There will be more way to do the same thing. People that already "know" Java will need to go back and relearn this. As fas as BGGA goes there is also alot of quite complex things that is introduced, such as how return and break are treated.

For us intetested in the language this isn't a problem but most Java developers are just using the language to get something done and will never for instance go to javalobby.org...

I think the fact that the language will be more complex is undisputed. The question is whether the gains are larger than the complexity increment. Joshua Bloch, which is without a doubt a very credited Java lanugage expert, thinks so and so does most "normal" developers I talk to think.

It adds to the coplexity of the language. There will be more way to do the same thing. People that already "know" Java will need to go back and relearn this. As fas as BGGA goes there is also alot of quite complex things that is introduced, such as how return and break are treated.

For us intetested in the language this isn't a problem but most Java developers are just using the language to get something done and will never for instance go to javalobby.org...

I think the fact that the language will be more complex is undisputed. The question is whether the gains are larger than the complexity increment. Joshua Bloch, which is without a doubt a very credited Java lanugage expert, thinks so and so does most "normal" developers I talk to think.

It adds to the coplexity of the language. There will be more way to do the same thing. People that already "know" Java will need to go back and relearn this. As fas as BGGA goes there is also alot of quite complex things that is introduced, such as how return and break are treated.

For us intetested in the language this isn't a problem but most Java developers are just using the language to get something done and will never for instance go to javalobby.org...

I think the fact that the language will be more complex is undisputed. The question is whether the gains are larger than the complexity increment. Joshua Bloch, which is without a doubt a very credited Java lanugage expert, thinks so and so does most "normal" developers I talk to think.

It adds to the coplexity of the language. There will be more way to do the same thing. People that already "know" Java will need to go back and relearn this. As fas as BGGA goes there is also alot of quite complex things that is introduced, such as how return and break are treated.

For us intetested in the language this isn't a problem but most Java developers are just using the language to get something done and will never for instance go to javalobby.org...

I think the fact that the language will be more complex is undisputed. The question is whether the gains are larger than the complexity increment. Joshua Bloch, which is without a doubt a very credited Java lanugage expert, thinks so and so does most "normal" developers I talk to think.

It adds to the coplexity of the language. There will be more way to do the same thing. People that already "know" Java will need to go back and relearn this. As fas as BGGA goes there is also alot of quite complex things that is introduced, such as how return and break are treated.

For us intetested in the language this isn't a problem but most Java developers are just using the language to get something done and will never for instance go to javalobby.org...

I think the fact that the language will be more complex is undisputed. The question is whether the gains are larger than the complexity increment. Joshua Bloch, which is without a doubt a very credited Java lanugage expert, thinks so and so does most "normal" developers I talk to think.

It adds to the coplexity of the language. There will be more way to do the same thing. People that already "know" Java will need to go back and relearn this. As fas as BGGA goes there is also alot of quite complex things that is introduced, such as how return and break are treated.

For us intetested in the language this isn't a problem but most Java developers are just using the language to get something done and will never for instance go to javalobby.org...

I think the fact that the language will be more complex is undisputed. The question is whether the gains are larger than the complexity increment. Joshua Bloch, which is without a doubt a very credited Java lanugage expert, thinks so and so does most "normal" developers I talk to think.

Many of you seem to mix up what you want and what 95% of the general Java developers want. Noone in a real company is choosing C# over Java beacuse it has more language features. Corporations makes decisions of totally different grounds and anyone that works in a company that has more than ten employees knows this.

Ease of use and consistency is what matters. Availability of developers that knows the language matters. Availability of components/frameworks with good support matters. Making the language more powerful at the expense if ease of use works against all this and it is bad for Java, but good for you. Joshua Bloch is right. Period. Anyone that has truly understood his Effective Java books knows this to be true.

Cheers,
Mikael

Many of you seem to mix up what you want and what 95% of the general Java developers want. Noone in a real company is choosing C# over Java beacuse it has more language features. Corporations makes decisions of totally different grounds and anyone that works in a company that has more than ten employees knows this.

Ease of use and consistency is what matters. Availability of developers that knows the language matters. Availability of components/frameworks with good support matters. Making the language more powerful at the expense if ease of use works against all this and it is bad for Java, but good for you. Joshua Bloch is right. Period. Anyone that has truly understood his Effective Java books knows this to be true.

Cheers,
Mikael

Moreover, Swing API is already complex enough not to add a new Layout to it (I think adding GroupLayout to Java6 was bad).

I would say it is so complex because there are so many bad LayoutManagers (part of the problem though) and fixing that problem would not escalate it.

It is not IMO a ood idea to have to revert to another layout manager as soon as things gets tough since that usually menas you have to rewrite the GUI rather than to refine it. It is therefore important that your tool is simple to use but can handle the last pixel adjustments as well. Take for instance resolution independance, it isn't something that you just can slap on at the last stage if the layout manger doesn't support it.

I don't understand your claim on spacing between labels and text fields: DesignGridLayout uses LAF-provided spacing exclusively, so if spacing is wrong, this means that LAF gave wrong spacing.

I just looked at the screenshot for the showdown and the spacing was wrong. Particularily there was no difference between an unrelated and a related gap. An unrelated gap is typicall 50% larger. Btw, where do you get the LAF gaps? Do you use the Java 6+ GroupLayout plaf defaults?

Cheers,
Mikael

Moreover, Swing API is already complex enough not to add a new Layout to it (I think adding GroupLayout to Java6 was bad).

I would say it is so complex because there are so many bad LayoutManagers (part of the problem though) and fixing that problem would not escalate it.

It is not IMO a ood idea to have to revert to another layout manager as soon as things gets tough since that usually menas you have to rewrite the GUI rather than to refine it. It is therefore important that your tool is simple to use but can handle the last pixel adjustments as well. Take for instance resolution independance, it isn't something that you just can slap on at the last stage if the layout manger doesn't support it.

I don't understand your claim on spacing between labels and text fields: DesignGridLayout uses LAF-provided spacing exclusively, so if spacing is wrong, this means that LAF gave wrong spacing.

I just looked at the screenshot for the showdown and the spacing was wrong. Particularily there was no difference between an unrelated and a related gap. An unrelated gap is typicall 50% larger. Btw, where do you get the LAF gaps? Do you use the Java 6+ GroupLayout plaf defaults?

Cheers,
Mikael

DesignGridLayout is not only a LayoutManager, it is a GUI build tool. This means it can cut corners. This is sometimes ok.

It seems only creators of other layout managers say MiGLayout is "Too complex". It is not a common complaint among its users.

Furthermore, it cuts even more corners by not following the showdown rules by saying it creates a better GUI... Maybe it was intentional to both have left and right aligned components as well as non-column aligned ones to see if the layout manager could handle it?

Another problem with your showdown layout is that the spacing is wrong. There are equal spacing between the label and its related textfield as it is to the next textfiled that is unrelated. This is not style guide compliant.

If you want to cut such corners that is ok, but please don't make claims that it is simpler just because it does it in a simpler way.

Also, you can use MiGLayout in API mode, which means no strings and only compiler checked stuff. You have a choice. And 90% of the developers choose the string constraints... (judging from the forum feedback).

Cheers,
Mikael

DesignGridLayout is not only a LayoutManager, it is a GUI build tool. This means it can cut corners. This is sometimes ok.

It seems only creators of other layout managers say MiGLayout is "Too complex". It is not a common complaint among its users.

Furthermore, it cuts even more corners by not following the showdown rules by saying it creates a better GUI... Maybe it was intentional to both have left and right aligned components as well as non-column aligned ones to see if the layout manager could handle it?

Another problem with your showdown layout is that the spacing is wrong. There are equal spacing between the label and its related textfield as it is to the next textfiled that is unrelated. This is not style guide compliant.

If you want to cut such corners that is ok, but please don't make claims that it is simpler just because it does it in a simpler way.

Also, you can use MiGLayout in API mode, which means no strings and only compiler checked stuff. You have a choice. And 90% of the developers choose the string constraints... (judging from the forum feedback).

Cheers,
Mikael

DesignGridLayout is not only a LayoutManager, it is a GUI build tool. This means it can cut corners. This is sometimes ok.

It seems only creators of other layout managers say MiGLayout is "Too complex". It is not a common complaint among its users.

Furthermore, it cuts even more corners by not following the showdown rules by saying it creates a better GUI... Maybe it was intentional to both have left and right aligned components as well as non-column aligned ones to see if the layout manager could handle it?

Another problem with your showdown layout is that the spacing is wrong. There are equal spacing between the label and its related textfield as it is to the next textfiled that is unrelated. This is not style guide compliant.

If you want to cut such corners that is ok, but please don't make claims that it is simpler just because it does it in a simpler way.

Also, you can use MiGLayout in API mode, which means no strings and only compiler checked stuff. You have a choice. And 90% of the developers choose the string constraints... (judging from the forum feedback).

Cheers,
Mikael

DesignGridLayout is not only a LayoutManager, it is a GUI build tool. This means it can cut corners. This is sometimes ok.

It seems only creators of other layout managers say MiGLayout is "Too complex". It is not a common complaint among its users.

Furthermore, it cuts even more corners by not following the showdown rules by saying it creates a better GUI... Maybe it was intentional to both have left and right aligned components as well as non-column aligned ones to see if the layout manager could handle it?

Another problem with your showdown layout is that the spacing is wrong. There are equal spacing between the label and its related textfield as it is to the next textfiled that is unrelated. This is not style guide compliant.

If you want to cut such corners that is ok, but please don't make claims that it is simpler just because it does it in a simpler way.

Also, you can use MiGLayout in API mode, which means no strings and only compiler checked stuff. You have a choice. And 90% of the developers choose the string constraints... (judging from the forum feedback).

Cheers,
Mikael

DesignGridLayout is not only a LayoutManager, it is a GUI build tool. This means it can cut corners. This is sometimes ok.

It seems only creators of other layout managers say MiGLayout is "Too complex". It is not a common complaint among its users.

Furthermore, it cuts even more corners by not following the showdown rules by saying it creates a better GUI... Maybe it was intentional to both have left and right aligned components as well as non-column aligned ones to see if the layout manager could handle it?

Another problem with your showdown layout is that the spacing is wrong. There are equal spacing between the label and its related textfield as it is to the next textfiled that is unrelated. This is not style guide compliant.

If you want to cut such corners that is ok, but please don't make claims that it is simpler just because it does it in a simpler way.

Also, you can use MiGLayout in API mode, which means no strings and only compiler checked stuff. You have a choice. And 90% of the developers choose the string constraints... (judging from the forum feedback).

Cheers,
Mikael

DesignGridLayout is not only a LayoutManager, it is a GUI build tool. This means it can cut corners. This is sometimes ok.

It seems only creators of other layout managers say MiGLayout is "Too complex". It is not a common complaint among its users.

Furthermore, it cuts even more corners by not following the showdown rules by saying it creates a better GUI... Maybe it was intentional to both have left and right aligned components as well as non-column aligned ones to see if the layout manager could handle it?

Another problem with your showdown layout is that the spacing is wrong. There are equal spacing between the label and its related textfield as it is to the next textfiled that is unrelated. This is not style guide compliant.

If you want to cut such corners that is ok, but please don't make claims that it is simpler just because it does it in a simpler way.

Also, you can use MiGLayout in API mode, which means no strings and only compiler checked stuff. You have a choice. And 90% of the developers choose the string constraints... (judging from the forum feedback).

Cheers,
Mikael

Carl,

Decorators can be seen as custom light weight components that which purpose is to encapsulate Java2D painting. Go to http://www.migcalendar.com/demos.php and check out the topmost demo. I think it is pretty fast, at least when dragging the activities.

Using a decent LayoutManager is also key. MiGLayout.com will make you use much less panels in panels, which is good for performance.

Carl,

Decorators can be seen as custom light weight components that which purpose is to encapsulate Java2D painting. Go to http://www.migcalendar.com/demos.php and check out the topmost demo. I think it is pretty fast, at least when dragging the activities.

Using a decent LayoutManager is also key. MiGLayout.com will make you use much less panels in panels, which is good for performance.

Carl,

Decorators can be seen as custom light weight components that which purpose is to encapsulate Java2D painting. Go to http://www.migcalendar.com/demos.php and check out the topmost demo. I think it is pretty fast, at least when dragging the activities.

Using a decent LayoutManager is also key. MiGLayout.com will make you use much less panels in panels, which is good for performance.

Carl,

Decorators can be seen as custom light weight components that which purpose is to encapsulate Java2D painting. Go to http://www.migcalendar.com/demos.php and check out the topmost demo. I think it is pretty fast, at least when dragging the activities.

Using a decent LayoutManager is also key. MiGLayout.com will make you use much less panels in panels, which is good for performance.

Carl,

Decorators can be seen as custom light weight components that which purpose is to encapsulate Java2D painting. Go to http://www.migcalendar.com/demos.php and check out the topmost demo. I think it is pretty fast, at least when dragging the activities.

Using a decent LayoutManager is also key. MiGLayout.com will make you use much less panels in panels, which is good for performance.

Carl,

Decorators can be seen as custom light weight components that which purpose is to encapsulate Java2D painting. Go to http://www.migcalendar.com/demos.php and check out the topmost demo. I think it is pretty fast, at least when dragging the activities.

Using a decent LayoutManager is also key. MiGLayout.com will make you use much less panels in panels, which is good for performance.

Carl,

Decorators can be seen as custom light weight components that which purpose is to encapsulate Java2D painting. Go to http://www.migcalendar.com/demos.php and check out the topmost demo. I think it is pretty fast, at least when dragging the activities.

Using a decent LayoutManager is also key. MiGLayout.com will make you use much less panels in panels, which is good for performance.

Carl,

Decorators can be seen as custom light weight components that which purpose is to encapsulate Java2D painting. Go to http://www.migcalendar.com/demos.php and check out the topmost demo. I think it is pretty fast, at least when dragging the activities.

Using a decent LayoutManager is also key. MiGLayout.com will make you use much less panels in panels, which is good for performance.

Carl,

Decorators can be seen as custom light weight components that which purpose is to encapsulate Java2D painting. Go to http://www.migcalendar.com/demos.php and check out the topmost demo. I think it is pretty fast, at least when dragging the activities.

Using a decent LayoutManager is also key. MiGLayout.com will make you use much less panels in panels, which is good for performance.

Carl,

Decorators can be seen as custom light weight components that which purpose is to encapsulate Java2D painting. Go to http://www.migcalendar.com/demos.php and check out the topmost demo. I think it is pretty fast, at least when dragging the activities.

Using a decent LayoutManager is also key. MiGLayout.com will make you use much less panels in panels, which is good for performance.

Carl,

Decorators can be seen as custom light weight components that which purpose is to encapsulate Java2D painting. Go to http://www.migcalendar.com/demos.php and check out the topmost demo. I think it is pretty fast, at least when dragging the activities.

Using a decent LayoutManager is also key. MiGLayout.com will make you use much less panels in panels, which is good for performance.

Carl,

Decorators can be seen as custom light weight components that which purpose is to encapsulate Java2D painting. Go to http://www.migcalendar.com/demos.php and check out the topmost demo. I think it is pretty fast, at least when dragging the activities.

Using a decent LayoutManager is also key. MiGLayout.com will make you use much less panels in panels, which is good for performance.

Carl,

Decorators can be seen as custom light weight components that which purpose is to encapsulate Java2D painting. Go to http://www.migcalendar.com/demos.php and check out the topmost demo. I think it is pretty fast, at least when dragging the activities.

Using a decent LayoutManager is also key. MiGLayout.com will make you use much less panels in panels, which is good for performance.

Carl,

Decorators can be seen as custom light weight components that which purpose is to encapsulate Java2D painting. Go to http://www.migcalendar.com/demos.php and check out the topmost demo. I think it is pretty fast, at least when dragging the activities.

Using a decent LayoutManager is also key. MiGLayout.com will make you use much less panels in panels, which is good for performance.

Carl,

Decorators can be seen as custom light weight components that which purpose is to encapsulate Java2D painting. Go to http://www.migcalendar.com/demos.php and check out the topmost demo. I think it is pretty fast, at least when dragging the activities.

Using a decent LayoutManager is also key. MiGLayout.com will make you use much less panels in panels, which is good for performance.

Carl,

Decorators can be seen as custom light weight components that which purpose is to encapsulate Java2D painting. Go to http://www.migcalendar.com/demos.php and check out the topmost demo. I think it is pretty fast, at least when dragging the activities.

Using a decent LayoutManager is also key. MiGLayout.com will make you use much less panels in panels, which is good for performance.

Carl,

Nope, not a OSS project per se, but it will be free once completed.

Syncing will all be done by plugins. I will just provide the threading and queueing and a plugins just have to do the last device specific part if needed. Syncing will be in phase two though.

Swing can be made fast, but you need to know how. Using decorators insted of many components is one trick. On our Macs iTunes is actually not that fast to start up and a lot of times it freezes when there are background activities. I guess they don't have the best threading model in the background...

At least I aim at faster. Let's see how it goes... :)

Carl,

Nope, not a OSS project per se, but it will be free once completed.

Syncing will all be done by plugins. I will just provide the threading and queueing and a plugins just have to do the last device specific part if needed. Syncing will be in phase two though.

Swing can be made fast, but you need to know how. Using decorators insted of many components is one trick. On our Macs iTunes is actually not that fast to start up and a lot of times it freezes when there are background activities. I guess they don't have the best threading model in the background...

At least I aim at faster. Let's see how it goes... :)

Thanks Carl,

Actually I was a bit disappointed when I saw Genie. Not because it was bad but because that was going to be one of the cool features in this media player. My version of Genie will be a bit broader and I hope it will be good. The main advantage towards iTunes will be speed, better usability (IMO) and absolutely no lock-ins.

Cheers,
Mikael

Thanks Carl,

Actually I was a bit disappointed when I saw Genie. Not because it was bad but because that was going to be one of the cool features in this media player. My version of Genie will be a bit broader and I hope it will be good. The main advantage towards iTunes will be speed, better usability (IMO) and absolutely no lock-ins.

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Vincent,

I am still in the desig phase using Adobe Fireworks so I have not considered technology for playback yet. I have just checked that there is in fact ways to play what I want. In update 10, which I will need in any case, you can always play what the system can play. What is important is that my mother, and her mother, will be able to play the most common formats in a super simple way. But of course the geeks will have options as well.

As soon as I get to the coding I will start to look into the codec issues and I will blog about it then as well.

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Vincent,

I am still in the desig phase using Adobe Fireworks so I have not considered technology for playback yet. I have just checked that there is in fact ways to play what I want. In update 10, which I will need in any case, you can always play what the system can play. What is important is that my mother, and her mother, will be able to play the most common formats in a super simple way. But of course the geeks will have options as well.

As soon as I get to the coding I will start to look into the codec issues and I will blog about it then as well.

Cheers,
Mikael

Hey Guys, it has been upgraded to "Priority: 3-Medium". :)

Not sure what this means in practice but I can see no disadvanages at least.

I am considering filing for a JSR. I don't like duplicate work though so any hints from any "official" people would be apprecited.

Again, thank you all for your support.

Hey Guys, it has been upgraded to "Priority: 3-Medium". :)

Not sure what this means in practice but I can see no disadvanages at least.

I am considering filing for a JSR. I don't like duplicate work though so any hints from any "official" people would be apprecited.

Again, thank you all for your support.

Thanks you all for your kind words and your support!

A JSR might be a way to go actually. It is kind of similar to JSR 310 (Date & Time) in that it is new good functionality replacing something bad that is already there. If Sun would just send me one note that that would be a good idea I would be happy to be the spec lead. And the job is mostly done.

Thanks again all!

Regarding votes. 387 votes and MiG Layout would be #4... ;)

Mikael

Thanks you all for your kind words and your support!

A JSR might be a way to go actually. It is kind of similar to JSR 310 (Date & Time) in that it is new good functionality replacing something bad that is already there. If Sun would just send me one note that that would be a good idea I would be happy to be the spec lead. And the job is mostly done.

Thanks again all!

Regarding votes. 387 votes and MiG Layout would be #4... ;)

Mikael

What I try to promote here is a catious way. One that doesn't change Java much at all, it just touch up the syntax. Then, when we have that, and the argument that anonymous inner classes are so darn cumbersome to write, can we get a clean view on if we need real powerful closures or not.

This is to fight the "all or nothing" problem.

What I try to promote here is a catious way. One that doesn't change Java much at all, it just touch up the syntax. Then, when we have that, and the argument that anonymous inner classes are so darn cumbersome to write, can we get a clean view on if we need real powerful closures or not.

This is to fight the "all or nothing" problem.

What I try to promote here is a catious way. One that doesn't change Java much at all, it just touch up the syntax. Then, when we have that, and the argument that anonymous inner classes are so darn cumbersome to write, can we get a clean view on if we need real powerful closures or not.

This is to fight the "all or nothing" problem.

What I try to promote here is a catious way. One that doesn't change Java much at all, it just touch up the syntax. Then, when we have that, and the argument that anonymous inner classes are so darn cumbersome to write, can we get a clean view on if we need real powerful closures or not.

This is to fight the "all or nothing" problem.

What I try to promote here is a catious way. One that doesn't change Java much at all, it just touch up the syntax. Then, when we have that, and the argument that anonymous inner classes are so darn cumbersome to write, can we get a clean view on if we need real powerful closures or not.

This is to fight the "all or nothing" problem.

What I try to promote here is a catious way. One that doesn't change Java much at all, it just touch up the syntax. Then, when we have that, and the argument that anonymous inner classes are so darn cumbersome to write, can we get a clean view on if we need real powerful closures or not.

This is to fight the "all or nothing" problem.

I think this is a poor reason to trigger action on the closure front.

<blockquote>...Java will be nuked in the blogosphere ...</blockquote>

It is most definitely so. But there is a way that it should be, and there is a way that it is. It is a fine line to walk. That is why I think this middle ground is good. Because it will ease the complains but still not give in to the Java 3000 camp and go full BGGA without testing it first jsut to stay on par with (insert your favorite language here).

I think this is a poor reason to trigger action on the closure front.

<blockquote>...Java will be nuked in the blogosphere ...</blockquote>

It is most definitely so. But there is a way that it should be, and there is a way that it is. It is a fine line to walk. That is why I think this middle ground is good. Because it will ease the complains but still not give in to the Java 3000 camp and go full BGGA without testing it first jsut to stay on par with (insert your favorite language here).

I think this is a poor reason to trigger action on the closure front.

<blockquote>...Java will be nuked in the blogosphere ...</blockquote>

It is most definitely so. But there is a way that it should be, and there is a way that it is. It is a fine line to walk. That is why I think this middle ground is good. Because it will ease the complains but still not give in to the Java 3000 camp and go full BGGA without testing it first jsut to stay on par with (insert your favorite language here).

I think this is a poor reason to trigger action on the closure front.

<blockquote>...Java will be nuked in the blogosphere ...</blockquote>

It is most definitely so. But there is a way that it should be, and there is a way that it is. It is a fine line to walk. That is why I think this middle ground is good. Because it will ease the complains but still not give in to the Java 3000 camp and go full BGGA without testing it first jsut to stay on par with (insert your favorite language here).

I think this is a poor reason to trigger action on the closure front.

<blockquote>...Java will be nuked in the blogosphere ...</blockquote>

It is most definitely so. But there is a way that it should be, and there is a way that it is. It is a fine line to walk. That is why I think this middle ground is good. Because it will ease the complains but still not give in to the Java 3000 camp and go full BGGA without testing it first jsut to stay on par with (insert your favorite language here).

I think this is a poor reason to trigger action on the closure front.

<blockquote>...Java will be nuked in the blogosphere ...</blockquote>

It is most definitely so. But there is a way that it should be, and there is a way that it is. It is a fine line to walk. That is why I think this middle ground is good. Because it will ease the complains but still not give in to the Java 3000 camp and go full BGGA without testing it first jsut to stay on par with (insert your favorite language here).

> Yeah, and where's the MigLayout integration?

Hehe, yeah I should get to it should't I..

"Since it is Open Source you can add it yourself" I hear some are saying.. ;)

The Swing team is not aware of the layout problem. Or they pretend not to be so they don't have to support something not created in-house. Not even when they could start fresh with JavaFX they could do it right.

Seriously I am so sick and tired of the way that desktop java is run that I have switched to iPhone coding. Too bad Objective-C is so so bad compared to Java.

[getting a cup of asfalt strength coffee to stop the cranky mood]

> Yeah, and where's the MigLayout integration?

Hehe, yeah I should get to it should't I..

"Since it is Open Source you can add it yourself" I hear some are saying.. ;)

The Swing team is not aware of the layout problem. Or they pretend not to be so they don't have to support something not created in-house. Not even when they could start fresh with JavaFX they could do it right.

Seriously I am so sick and tired of the way that desktop java is run that I have switched to iPhone coding. Too bad Objective-C is so so bad compared to Java.

[getting a cup of asfalt strength coffee to stop the cranky mood]

> Yeah, and where's the MigLayout integration?

Hehe, yeah I should get to it should't I..

"Since it is Open Source you can add it yourself" I hear some are saying.. ;)

The Swing team is not aware of the layout problem. Or they pretend not to be so they don't have to support something not created in-house. Not even when they could start fresh with JavaFX they could do it right.

Seriously I am so sick and tired of the way that desktop java is run that I have switched to iPhone coding. Too bad Objective-C is so so bad compared to Java.

[getting a cup of asfalt strength coffee to stop the cranky mood]

> Yeah, and where's the MigLayout integration?

Hehe, yeah I should get to it should't I..

"Since it is Open Source you can add it yourself" I hear some are saying.. ;)

The Swing team is not aware of the layout problem. Or they pretend not to be so they don't have to support something not created in-house. Not even when they could start fresh with JavaFX they could do it right.

Seriously I am so sick and tired of the way that desktop java is run that I have switched to iPhone coding. Too bad Objective-C is so so bad compared to Java.

[getting a cup of asfalt strength coffee to stop the cranky mood]

> Yeah, and where's the MigLayout integration?

Hehe, yeah I should get to it should't I..

"Since it is Open Source you can add it yourself" I hear some are saying.. ;)

The Swing team is not aware of the layout problem. Or they pretend not to be so they don't have to support something not created in-house. Not even when they could start fresh with JavaFX they could do it right.

Seriously I am so sick and tired of the way that desktop java is run that I have switched to iPhone coding. Too bad Objective-C is so so bad compared to Java.

[getting a cup of asfalt strength coffee to stop the cranky mood]

> Yeah, and where's the MigLayout integration?

Hehe, yeah I should get to it should't I..

"Since it is Open Source you can add it yourself" I hear some are saying.. ;)

The Swing team is not aware of the layout problem. Or they pretend not to be so they don't have to support something not created in-house. Not even when they could start fresh with JavaFX they could do it right.

Seriously I am so sick and tired of the way that desktop java is run that I have switched to iPhone coding. Too bad Objective-C is so so bad compared to Java.

[getting a cup of asfalt strength coffee to stop the cranky mood]

> Yeah, and where's the MigLayout integration?

Hehe, yeah I should get to it should't I..

"Since it is Open Source you can add it yourself" I hear some are saying.. ;)

The Swing team is not aware of the layout problem. Or they pretend not to be so they don't have to support something not created in-house. Not even when they could start fresh with JavaFX they could do it right.

Seriously I am so sick and tired of the way that desktop java is run that I have switched to iPhone coding. Too bad Objective-C is so so bad compared to Java.

[getting a cup of asfalt strength coffee to stop the cranky mood]

> Yeah, and where's the MigLayout integration?

Hehe, yeah I should get to it should't I..

"Since it is Open Source you can add it yourself" I hear some are saying.. ;)

The Swing team is not aware of the layout problem. Or they pretend not to be so they don't have to support something not created in-house. Not even when they could start fresh with JavaFX they could do it right.

Seriously I am so sick and tired of the way that desktop java is run that I have switched to iPhone coding. Too bad Objective-C is so so bad compared to Java.

[getting a cup of asfalt strength coffee to stop the cranky mood]

> Yeah, and where's the MigLayout integration?

Hehe, yeah I should get to it should't I..

"Since it is Open Source you can add it yourself" I hear some are saying.. ;)

The Swing team is not aware of the layout problem. Or they pretend not to be so they don't have to support something not created in-house. Not even when they could start fresh with JavaFX they could do it right.

Seriously I am so sick and tired of the way that desktop java is run that I have switched to iPhone coding. Too bad Objective-C is so so bad compared to Java.

[getting a cup of asfalt strength coffee to stop the cranky mood]

> Yeah, and where's the MigLayout integration?

Hehe, yeah I should get to it should't I..

"Since it is Open Source you can add it yourself" I hear some are saying.. ;)

The Swing team is not aware of the layout problem. Or they pretend not to be so they don't have to support something not created in-house. Not even when they could start fresh with JavaFX they could do it right.

Seriously I am so sick and tired of the way that desktop java is run that I have switched to iPhone coding. Too bad Objective-C is so so bad compared to Java.

[getting a cup of asfalt strength coffee to stop the cranky mood]

Where are all the much needed cool and good looking demos? It should be the first thing released. All JavFX demos so far, except the initial JavaOne 2007 Flash cloned demos, are between "Hello, World!" and ugly.

Where are all the much needed cool and good looking demos? It should be the first thing released. All JavFX demos so far, except the initial JavaOne 2007 Flash cloned demos, are between "Hello, World!" and ugly.

LOL! :D

(I mean no disrespect to the Linux crew, but I think that was pretty funny Kirill, and at the same time painfully telling about the world as it stands)

LOL! :D

(I mean no disrespect to the Linux crew, but I think that was pretty funny Kirill, and at the same time painfully telling about the world as it stands)

You're shooting at the wrong target. Go up against Apple instead, they are an order of magnitude larger than Linux on the desktop (and growing) and if THEY don't provide a timely u10 Sun is toast regarding JavaFX. :)

Cheers,
Mikael

You're shooting at the wrong target. Go up against Apple instead, they are an order of magnitude larger than Linux on the desktop (and growing) and if THEY don't provide a timely u10 Sun is toast regarding JavaFX. :)

Cheers,
Mikael

public class SingletonObj

should be

public class Singleton

public class SingletonObj

should be

public class Singleton

Sun has a lot of excellent engineers. The problem is just that they seem to promote these engineers to management and upwards without mixing them with bussiness and marketing people. This creates a chasm between the departments leading to bad understading and bad communication.

The engineers creates things that make sense out of a technical point of view but fail to understand the real users. This is reasonable when they target other good developers but not optimal when targeting casual/coorporate developers. API after API tells this tale. JSF, EJB, Swing and so on. Technically brilliant by hard to use.

A telling example of this is that they do not seem to have Graphical Designers or GUI Designers (not the same thing!!) in house, they just have developers that creates GUIs, of which some are decent. Just look at all GUIs created by Sun's engineers...

Cheers,
Mikael

Sun has a lot of excellent engineers. The problem is just that they seem to promote these engineers to management and upwards without mixing them with bussiness and marketing people. This creates a chasm between the departments leading to bad understading and bad communication.

The engineers creates things that make sense out of a technical point of view but fail to understand the real users. This is reasonable when they target other good developers but not optimal when targeting casual/coorporate developers. API after API tells this tale. JSF, EJB, Swing and so on. Technically brilliant by hard to use.

A telling example of this is that they do not seem to have Graphical Designers or GUI Designers (not the same thing!!) in house, they just have developers that creates GUIs, of which some are decent. Just look at all GUIs created by Sun's engineers...

Cheers,
Mikael

> We do have a UE/UI team(s), it's just spread very thin, and it takes a while to get their resources.

Which is unfortuate. I would say that they should touch up everything that comes out. Like Apple does. Apple's increadible success into a saturated market(s) really shows how important design and polish really is.

> We do have a UE/UI team(s), it's just spread very thin, and it takes a while to get their resources.

Which is unfortuate. I would say that they should touch up everything that comes out. Like Apple does. Apple's increadible success into a saturated market(s) really shows how important design and polish really is.

> We do have a UE/UI team(s), it's just spread very thin, and it takes a while to get their resources.

Which is unfortuate. I would say that they should touch up everything that comes out. Like Apple does. Apple's increadible success into a saturated market(s) really shows how important design and polish really is.

> We do have a UE/UI team(s), it's just spread very thin, and it takes a while to get their resources.

Which is unfortuate. I would say that they should touch up everything that comes out. Like Apple does. Apple's increadible success into a saturated market(s) really shows how important design and polish really is.

> We do have a UE/UI team(s), it's just spread very thin, and it takes a while to get their resources.

Which is unfortuate. I would say that they should touch up everything that comes out. Like Apple does. Apple's increadible success into a saturated market(s) really shows how important design and polish really is.

> We do have a UE/UI team(s), it's just spread very thin, and it takes a while to get their resources.

Which is unfortuate. I would say that they should touch up everything that comes out. Like Apple does. Apple's increadible success into a saturated market(s) really shows how important design and polish really is.

Chuck Norris doesn't need Autoboxing, he boxes any primitive in his path!

Chuch Norris can autobox any Character!

Chuck Norris doesn't need closures. Period. ;)

Chuck Norris doesn't need Autoboxing, he boxes any primitive in his path!

Chuch Norris can autobox any Character!

Chuck Norris doesn't need closures. Period. ;)

/I was in highschool/I am in highschool/

:)

/I was in highschool/I am in highschool/

:)

/I was in highschool/I am in highschool/

:)

/I was in highschool/I am in highschool/

:)

/I was in highschool/I am in highschool/

:)

/I was in highschool/I am in highschool/

:)

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

I think whining in the forum section will not do much good. Why not mail Rick directly instead?

You mention your opinions, but that is your opinions. I for instance, as a Java programmer, am interested in Fan. It is always good to know what is happening.

And, the title say pretty much what the subject is about, a new language. You don't need to click it.

I just think that it is pretty bad manners to hijack a thread like this with whining. If I was a moderator I would move it to another thread, one for opinions.

Hey Serge, chilld down. Fan is interesting because it has been touted as a good candidate for "Java 3".

Also, it is not JavaExclusiveLobby. ;)

Cheers,
Mikael

Hey Serge, chilld down. Fan is interesting because it has been touted as a good candidate for "Java 3".

Also, it is not JavaExclusiveLobby. ;)

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Andy,

Have you considered using MigLayout as the backing layout engine? It would give you correct default gaps, correct automatic sizing and ordering (per platform) of OK/Cancel (all types of standard buttons). It also have a lot of other neat fetures. The fact that it is the #1 RFE for being added to SWT doesn't hurt either. ;)

I think it would be very easy to connect to it from Ruby.

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Mikael Grev

Hello Andy,

Have you considered using MigLayout as the backing layout engine? It would give you correct default gaps, correct automatic sizing and ordering (per platform) of OK/Cancel (all types of standard buttons). It also have a lot of other neat fetures. The fact that it is the #1 RFE for being added to SWT doesn't hurt either. ;)

I think it would be very easy to connect to it from Ruby.

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Mikael Grev

That might be so, but they are touting it as a thing JavaFX brought.. (since JavaFX is a campain to enhance Java on the desktop). It can also be that they decided to put in a lot of effort to fix the desktop and then, later, named it and made it a marketing thing.

Anyway, the "desktop push" that now is called JavaFX brings these good things.

That might be so, but they are touting it as a thing JavaFX brought.. (since JavaFX is a campain to enhance Java on the desktop). It can also be that they decided to put in a lot of effort to fix the desktop and then, later, named it and made it a marketing thing.

Anyway, the "desktop push" that now is called JavaFX brings these good things.

> JavaFX Script vs. Swing: Are You Still Concerned?

Yes I am. A new layer is seldom a good thing even if it looks that way to an architect. Win32-> MFC, AWT -> Swing are two examples of something that does not work really well when it comes to actual API usage. .NET and WinForms got it kind of right though, there you seldom need to go down to the layer below to do something.

I also want to question the "Declarative is better" opinion that all seem to cluster around. Declarative is not better, it is just different. Better for some things and worse for other. Static GUIs: good. Dynamic GUIs: not so good. Static with bound content: good. Dynamic with bound content: not good at all.

In all I am worried, but hopefull.

JavaFX IS good in that it has brought us the new Plugin, Direct 3D 9 hw acceleration, translucent and shaped windows, Java Kernel, Java Startup Cache (even if the highly visible gutter Icon shows that they still not really understand the customer..) and much more. I do not think that would have been done if not for JavaFX. It is just the JavaFX Script part I see no real need for. I can see other ways to solve the problems it is set out to solve.

Cheers,
Mikael Grev

> ...and we would be better off with something like Jacek Furmankiewicz's JavaBuilder

Which is using MigLayout under the cover... :)

> ...and we would be better off with something like Jacek Furmankiewicz's JavaBuilder

Which is using MigLayout under the cover... :)

> ...and we would be better off with something like Jacek Furmankiewicz's JavaBuilder

Which is using MigLayout under the cover... :)

> ...and we would be better off with something like Jacek Furmankiewicz's JavaBuilder

Which is using MigLayout under the cover... :)

> ...and we would be better off with something like Jacek Furmankiewicz's JavaBuilder

Which is using MigLayout under the cover... :)

> ...and we would be better off with something like Jacek Furmankiewicz's JavaBuilder

Which is using MigLayout under the cover... :)

> ...and we would be better off with something like Jacek Furmankiewicz's JavaBuilder

Which is using MigLayout under the cover... :)

What is a Layout Manager though? Unless you go 100% with null layout and position everything by x and y in pixels you are using a Layout Manger, even if you don't call it that. One that can only position the right edge of a compoent to the container's edge is still layout manager...

What you are saying is that the layout managers you have encountered in Java is crap, right? Or?

What is a Layout Manager though? Unless you go 100% with null layout and position everything by x and y in pixels you are using a Layout Manger, even if you don't call it that. One that can only position the right edge of a compoent to the container's edge is still layout manager...

What you are saying is that the layout managers you have encountered in Java is crap, right? Or?

What is a Layout Manager though? Unless you go 100% with null layout and position everything by x and y in pixels you are using a Layout Manger, even if you don't call it that. One that can only position the right edge of a compoent to the container's edge is still layout manager...

What you are saying is that the layout managers you have encountered in Java is crap, right? Or?

For some reason the Swing engineers are not interested in solving the problem with layout managers. The sad fact is even that JavaFX will just wrap the old very limited layout managers. I thought that when they are in fact creating a new API, why not solve this and be done with it?

I had a session at JavaOne about MiG layout and got a lot of positive feedback. Adding MiG layout to the platform is climbing fast on the Top 25 Request for Enhancement list at Sun (http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6530906). That RFE system is the only way we have to put preassure on Sun and they constantly tell us to "file a RFE". The problem is only that they still just choose the RFEs they like and not the RFEs people like, or so it seems.

The normal answer I get from Sun people is that "Well, it is an excellent Layout Manager, but wouldn't it be better to have it outside the JDK so that users can download it?". The problem is that only about 1% (guesimated) actually will go out on the net and find a replacement, so that argument really doesn't matter.

If users complain about Layout Managers being crap in Swing, then that is a fact. Sun might think that the commenters are at fault for thinking so but that does not change the fact that they DO think so. And developers outside Sun are not more stupid. Infact they are probably using the APIs more than Sun developers, which are creating them.

Everything (almost) developers complain about has after a while ended up being fixed and I salute Sun for this. The problem is that it takes way too long and they resist furiously until they finally understand.

If there is a problem it should be solved IMO. The only way to know what is wrong is listening to the users, and I mean actually listening. Hearing what we say and disregard it will only increase tention.

Btw, the ugly fonts will finally be solved. Java 6u10 has native font rendering... After 7 years of complaining it finally paid off...

Maybe we don't need the ultimate flexibility on this one. Maybe only immutable objects, like for default values in annotations, and/or require a final method declararion.

Cheers
Mikael

Maybe we don't need the ultimate flexibility on this one. Maybe only immutable objects, like for default values in annotations, and/or require a final method declararion.

Cheers
Mikael

Maybe we don't need the ultimate flexibility on this one. Maybe only immutable objects, like for default values in annotations, and/or require a final method declararion.

Cheers
Mikael

Maybe we don't need the ultimate flexibility on this one. Maybe only immutable objects, like for default values in annotations, and/or require a final method declararion.

Cheers
Mikael

Maybe we don't need the ultimate flexibility on this one. Maybe only immutable objects, like for default values in annotations, and/or require a final method declararion.

Cheers
Mikael

Maybe we don't need the ultimate flexibility on this one. Maybe only immutable objects, like for default values in annotations, and/or require a final method declararion.

Cheers
Mikael

Hello Collin,

Yes, it probably would. Especially since that seems to be the way to do it in JavaFX (if I read you correctly). I have made it a point to have all the constraints of MigLayout in as a component constraint (during add) or as a constraint to the MigLayout constructor, so it should be quite easy to do.

Some things would be nice to have directly on the panel, such as enabling the debug mode. migPanel.setDebug(boolean).

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Collin,

Yes, it probably would. Especially since that seems to be the way to do it in JavaFX (if I read you correctly). I have made it a point to have all the constraints of MigLayout in as a component constraint (during add) or as a constraint to the MigLayout constructor, so it should be quite easy to do.

Some things would be nice to have directly on the panel, such as enabling the debug mode. migPanel.setDebug(boolean).

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Collin,

Yes, it probably would. Especially since that seems to be the way to do it in JavaFX (if I read you correctly). I have made it a point to have all the constraints of MigLayout in as a component constraint (during add) or as a constraint to the MigLayout constructor, so it should be quite easy to do.

Some things would be nice to have directly on the panel, such as enabling the debug mode. migPanel.setDebug(boolean).

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Collin,

Yes, it probably would. Especially since that seems to be the way to do it in JavaFX (if I read you correctly). I have made it a point to have all the constraints of MigLayout in as a component constraint (during add) or as a constraint to the MigLayout constructor, so it should be quite easy to do.

Some things would be nice to have directly on the panel, such as enabling the debug mode. migPanel.setDebug(boolean).

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Collin,

Yes, it probably would. Especially since that seems to be the way to do it in JavaFX (if I read you correctly). I have made it a point to have all the constraints of MigLayout in as a component constraint (during add) or as a constraint to the MigLayout constructor, so it should be quite easy to do.

Some things would be nice to have directly on the panel, such as enabling the debug mode. migPanel.setDebug(boolean).

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Collin,

Yes, it probably would. Especially since that seems to be the way to do it in JavaFX (if I read you correctly). I have made it a point to have all the constraints of MigLayout in as a component constraint (during add) or as a constraint to the MigLayout constructor, so it should be quite easy to do.

Some things would be nice to have directly on the panel, such as enabling the debug mode. migPanel.setDebug(boolean).

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Collin,

Yes, it probably would. Especially since that seems to be the way to do it in JavaFX (if I read you correctly). I have made it a point to have all the constraints of MigLayout in as a component constraint (during add) or as a constraint to the MigLayout constructor, so it should be quite easy to do.

Some things would be nice to have directly on the panel, such as enabling the debug mode. migPanel.setDebug(boolean).

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Collin,

Yes, it probably would. Especially since that seems to be the way to do it in JavaFX (if I read you correctly). I have made it a point to have all the constraints of MigLayout in as a component constraint (during add) or as a constraint to the MigLayout constructor, so it should be quite easy to do.

Some things would be nice to have directly on the panel, such as enabling the debug mode. migPanel.setDebug(boolean).

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Collin,

Yes, it probably would. Especially since that seems to be the way to do it in JavaFX (if I read you correctly). I have made it a point to have all the constraints of MigLayout in as a component constraint (during add) or as a constraint to the MigLayout constructor, so it should be quite easy to do.

Some things would be nice to have directly on the panel, such as enabling the debug mode. migPanel.setDebug(boolean).

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Collin,

Yes, it probably would. Especially since that seems to be the way to do it in JavaFX (if I read you correctly). I have made it a point to have all the constraints of MigLayout in as a component constraint (during add) or as a constraint to the MigLayout constructor, so it should be quite easy to do.

Some things would be nice to have directly on the panel, such as enabling the debug mode. migPanel.setDebug(boolean).

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Collin,

Yes, it probably would. Especially since that seems to be the way to do it in JavaFX (if I read you correctly). I have made it a point to have all the constraints of MigLayout in as a component constraint (during add) or as a constraint to the MigLayout constructor, so it should be quite easy to do.

Some things would be nice to have directly on the panel, such as enabling the debug mode. migPanel.setDebug(boolean).

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Collin,

Yes, it probably would. Especially since that seems to be the way to do it in JavaFX (if I read you correctly). I have made it a point to have all the constraints of MigLayout in as a component constraint (during add) or as a constraint to the MigLayout constructor, so it should be quite easy to do.

Some things would be nice to have directly on the panel, such as enabling the debug mode. migPanel.setDebug(boolean).

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Collin,

Yes, it probably would. Especially since that seems to be the way to do it in JavaFX (if I read you correctly). I have made it a point to have all the constraints of MigLayout in as a component constraint (during add) or as a constraint to the MigLayout constructor, so it should be quite easy to do.

Some things would be nice to have directly on the panel, such as enabling the debug mode. migPanel.setDebug(boolean).

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Collin,

Yes, it probably would. Especially since that seems to be the way to do it in JavaFX (if I read you correctly). I have made it a point to have all the constraints of MigLayout in as a component constraint (during add) or as a constraint to the MigLayout constructor, so it should be quite easy to do.

Some things would be nice to have directly on the panel, such as enabling the debug mode. migPanel.setDebug(boolean).

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Collin,

Yes, it probably would. Especially since that seems to be the way to do it in JavaFX (if I read you correctly). I have made it a point to have all the constraints of MigLayout in as a component constraint (during add) or as a constraint to the MigLayout constructor, so it should be quite easy to do.

Some things would be nice to have directly on the panel, such as enabling the debug mode. migPanel.setDebug(boolean).

Cheers,
Mikael

Hello Collin,

Yes, it probably would. Especially since that seems to be the way to do it in JavaFX (if I read you correctly). I have made it a point to have all the constraints of MigLayout in as a component constraint (during add) or as a constraint to the MigLayout constructor, so it should be quite easy to do.

Some things would be nice to have directly on the panel, such as enabling the debug mode. migPanel.setDebug(boolean).

Cheers,
Mikael

FormLayout would be better for sure, but MiG Layout would be even better, IMO. It has everything FormLayout has and a lot more.

The last think one should do is trying to shoe horn GridBagLayout into anything.

Why not vote at the RFE(s) for MigLayout:

JDK/Swing RFE: http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6530906 (it is on the top 25 REF list)

SWT/Nebula RFE: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=214698 (the most voted for R

There will also be a Technical Session on MiG Layout at JavaOne.

Cheers,
Mikael Grev (Author of MiG Layout)

FormLayout would be better for sure, but MiG Layout would be even better, IMO. It has everything FormLayout has and a lot more.

The last think one should do is trying to shoe horn GridBagLayout into anything.

Why not vote at the RFE(s) for MigLayout:

JDK/Swing RFE: http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6530906 (it is on the top 25 REF list)

SWT/Nebula RFE: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=214698 (the most voted for R

There will also be a Technical Session on MiG Layout at JavaOne.

Cheers,
Mikael Grev (Author of MiG Layout)

The syntax does not matter one bit, one would get used to basically any syntax. What should be debated and what will be the deciding factor in the end is how far we should go. Basically benefits compared to costs.

Benefits are the increased possibilities we will have with closures. BGGA will probably be the proposal that ranks highest in this regard as there is basically no limit on what you can do. You can even create a new language just by statically importing an API with clever closures.

Costs are the increased complexity closures will add. BGGA clearly ranks highest here as well but all proposals will add some complexity. It is always harder to re-learn than to learn from the beginning. This is a known psycological fact.

So, for me this is what we should discuss. Complexity vs. Gains.

For me that makes the CICE or FCM (without JCA) the clear choice. Not for me (I am willing to put in the effort to re-learn) but for the Java general public which without we would not have a job...

Cheers,

Mikael

The syntax does not matter one bit, one would get used to basically any syntax. What should be debated and what will be the deciding factor in the end is how far we should go. Basically benefits compared to costs.

Benefits are the increased possibilities we will have with closures. BGGA will probably be the proposal that ranks highest in this regard as there is basically no limit on what you can do. You can even create a new language just by statically importing an API with clever closures.

Costs are the increased complexity closures will add. BGGA clearly ranks highest here as well but all proposals will add some complexity. It is always harder to re-learn than to learn from the beginning. This is a known psycological fact.

So, for me this is what we should discuss. Complexity vs. Gains.

For me that makes the CICE or FCM (without JCA) the clear choice. Not for me (I am willing to put in the effort to re-learn) but for the Java general public which without we would not have a job...

Cheers,

Mikael

> Has fate smiled upon you this year?

Yes, it has. :)

A Technical Session about GUI Layouts for Swing & SWT using MigLayout. :)

> Has fate smiled upon you this year?

Yes, it has. :)

A Technical Session about GUI Layouts for Swing & SWT using MigLayout. :)